How to unshrink all-leather work gloves (deerskin, goatskin, no cowhide)?

[Mel Knight]

I think the other poster was suggesting that if you washed your urushiol
tainted clothes in the washing machine, then all your regular clothes
will become contaminated when washing them in the same machine. That's
how I read it anyway, I could be wrong, it happens a lot.

I don't want to get into any arguments, because of my nature, and, more
importantly, because I'm asking YOU guys for help!

See this picture of all my failed experiments! :(
Loading Image...

Consider me an "accidental" expert in urushiol contamination!

From my experience (only), there is no cross contamination after washing
in the washing machine. I fully 'understand' why anyone would 'think'
there is cross contamination. I would think so too. But there just isn't.
(That's what I love about experimental evidence; you don't have to
understand it if you can't understand it (and I can't); but, it is what
it is.)

I have cleared over 500-yards of poison oak, creating a tunnel as tall as
a man and as wide as he stands, pulling vines down from twenty feet into
the air, forty foot long vines digging into the loose hilly soil, vines
intertwined so thickly you can't walk through the stuff and you're a foot
off the ground in layers of the stuff underfoot. Hills so steep, no
machine can safely stay on the heavily overgrown chaparral slope.

Anywhere the vines touch bare skin (mostly neck, face, wrists, & ankles
or torn clothing), I break out in a rash. Otherwise, I'm entirely covered
in two layers of cloth, but, of course, the problematic arc-welding
gloves are only one layer deep {of deer, goat, and pigskin by way of
experiments to see which resist shrinking after water washing & air
drying).

The cowhide arc-welding gloves shrinks far too much; the goatskin lanolin
arc-welding gloves seems to shrink the least (but still far too much);
and any 'normal' (generally cowhide) work gloves are ridiculously useless
(too short for the most part, and too thin).

BTW, there is PLENTY of cross contamination (for years thereafter) if you
do NOT wash the clothes and gloves in the washing machine!

But, whatever (chemically) happens in the washing machine, works just
fine. I know this stuff rather well as all the black splotches in the
picture attached is oxidized urushiol. (For some reason, the black only
shows up on the clothes after you wash them - but the black lacquer does
show up on easily oozing out on cut vines a few days after cutting the
vine).

What I'm trying to find out is how to WASH the gloves without having them
SHRINK two sizes on me! I can't get them any bigger than XL and they're
MEDIUMs by the time they're cold washed in water and air dried.

BTW, do any of the engineers on here know WHY wet leather SHRINKS?

Is it a physical or chemical process?

[Mel Knight]

It seems difficult to find accurate information about it online. One
website tells you to wash it off with plain water and whatever you do,
do not take a shower or you will spread it all over your body! I wash
my hands with soap or dish detergent first then take a shower and use
lots of soap. Lather rinse repeat, lather rinse repeat.

I appreciate that you did the research (you are one out of a hundred
thousand!). That's what I love about the USENET; you find the 1/1000th of
the people who actually 'think' about the problem (in order to solve it)!

Rest assured, I've read EVERYTHING I can find in the net about urushiol!
And, not surprisingly, in my humble experience covered in poison-oak
urushiol, much of what is on the net is wrong.

Mind you, this California chaparral poison oak is NOTHING like the east
coast poison ivy infestations. This poison oak stuff out west is Paul
Bunyan & John Henry combined, compared to the puny stuff back east that
fifty gallons of roundup will kill. This stuff out west has to be
physically removed, and because of the topology, it has to be removed by
hand. (Unless you own a helicopter, in which case you'll pay someone else
to remove it and be done with it.)

That's OK. I like working outdoors. And, I love to defeat my enemy.

But to defeat your enemy, you must 'know' your enemy. Let me take the
quoted lines one by one with my humble experience (and I do this good
naturedly') to edify the populace about the problem at hand in the hopes
of a solution out there).

O: === observation (kindly observed by Tony)
E: === experimental result (by me)

O: It seems difficult to find accurate information about it online.
E: Lots of good and just plain wrong out there. No surprises here.

O: One website tells you to wash it off with plain water and whatever you
do, do not take a shower or you will spread it all over your body!
E: Follow that advice and you're dead meat! Trust me. You have as little
as ten to fifteen minutes (yes, ten to fifteen minutes) before the
urushiol makes its way through your outer layer of skin to where it's
oxidized to a quinone. Once it's a quinone, all you need is a Blast cell
to recognize it, and your cell-mediated immunity immune system kicks off
the battle (this is all from memory - but it's essentially what happens).

Once your immune system kicks off, you've started the cytokine storm
chain reaction that ends up as dead nerve cells (hence the itching) and
red blotches (red === blood, by definition) because of dead cells.

Urushiol is an oil. Wash it off with a solvent or a surfactant. Nothing
complicated than that. Shower is just about the only 'practical' way to
do that, head to toe. Personally, I shun the fancy (read expensive) Technu
stuff, although I understand how spermicides & surfactants and granules
of polyethylene work, I just can't use quarts of the stuff at 40 dollars
for a few ounce tube of the patented stuff.

So ... my advice (trust me, I've been there). DO TAKE A SHOWER (and
forget about that silly stuff about not 'opening the pores' with hot
water ... take a LONG shower, as comfortably hot as you like because the
volume of water and soap is what is getting rid of the urushiol that
hasn't yet been bound to a cell and turned into the 'infective' quinol.

O: I wash my hands with soap or dish detergent first then take a shower
and use lots of soap. Lather rinse repeat, lather rinse repeat.
E: Exactly!

The problem, of course, is that nobody who has any work to do can take a
shower every fifteen minutes.

So, what I do is work in the field for 8 hours on a weekend, and when I
come back in (admittedly far too late to have prevented the quinone from
forming), I shower for as long as I like and I wash all my clothes,
including my gloves (boots are problematic).

The problem I have is my gloves are shrinking far too much.

What do we (the tribal collective 'we') know about NOT shrinking gloves
but still washing urushiol oils off of them?

[Roy]

Post by Mel Knight

It seems difficult to find accurate information about it online.  One
website tells you to wash it off with plain water and whatever you do,
do not take a shower or you will spread it all over your body!  I wash
my hands with soap or dish detergent first then take a shower and use
lots of soap.  Lather rinse repeat, lather rinse repeat.

I appreciate that you did the research (you are one out of a hundred
thousand!). That's what I love about the USENET; you find the 1/1000th of
the people who actually 'think' about the problem (in order to solve it)!
Rest assured, I've read EVERYTHING I can find in the net about urushiol!
And, not surprisingly, in my humble experience covered in poison-oak
urushiol, much of what is on the net is wrong.
Mind you, this California chaparral poison oak is NOTHING like the east
coast poison ivy infestations. This poison oak stuff out west is Paul
Bunyan & John Henry combined, compared to the puny stuff back east that
fifty gallons of roundup will kill. This stuff out west has to be
physically removed, and because of the topology, it has to be removed by
hand. (Unless you own a helicopter, in which case you'll pay someone else
to remove it and be done with it.)
That's OK. I like working outdoors. And, I love to defeat my enemy.
But to defeat your enemy, you must 'know' your enemy. Let me take the
quoted lines one by one with my humble experience (and I do this good
naturedly') to edify the populace about the problem at hand in the hopes
of a solution out there).
O: === observation (kindly observed by Tony)
E: === experimental result (by me)
O: It seems difficult to find accurate information about it online.  
E: Lots of good and just plain wrong out there. No surprises here.
O: One website tells you to wash it off with plain water and whatever you
do, do not take a shower or you will spread it all over your body!  
E: Follow that advice and you're dead meat! Trust me. You have as little
as ten to fifteen minutes (yes, ten to fifteen minutes) before the
urushiol makes its way through your outer layer of skin to where it's
oxidized to a quinone. Once it's a quinone, all you need is a Blast cell
to recognize it, and your cell-mediated immunity immune system kicks off
the battle (this is all from memory - but it's essentially what happens).
Once your immune system kicks off, you've started the cytokine storm
chain reaction that ends up as dead nerve cells (hence the itching) and
red blotches (red === blood, by definition) because of dead cells.
Urushiol is an oil. Wash it off with a solvent or a surfactant. Nothing
complicated than that. Shower is just about the only 'practical' way to
do that, head to toe. Personally, I shun the fancy (read expensive) Technu
stuff, although I understand how spermicides & surfactants and granules
of polyethylene work, I just can't use quarts of the stuff at 40 dollars
for a few ounce tube of the patented stuff.
So ... my advice (trust me, I've been there). DO TAKE A SHOWER (and
forget about that silly stuff about not 'opening the pores' with hot
water ... take a LONG shower, as comfortably hot as you like because the
volume of water and soap is what is getting rid of the urushiol that
hasn't yet been bound to a cell and turned into the 'infective' quinol.
O: I wash my hands with soap or dish detergent first then take a shower
and use lots of soap.  Lather rinse repeat, lather rinse repeat.
E: Exactly!
The problem, of course, is that nobody who has any work to do can take a
shower every fifteen minutes.
So, what I do is work in the field for 8 hours on a weekend, and when I
come back in (admittedly far too late to have prevented the quinone from
forming), I shower for as long as I like and I wash all my clothes,
including my gloves (boots are problematic).
The problem I have is my gloves are shrinking far too much.
What do we (the tribal collective 'we') know about NOT shrinking gloves
but still washing urushiol oils off of them?

==
Mineral oil is safer to use than motor oil...food grade silicone spray
might help also.
==

[Dr Rig]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Dr Rig]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Mel Knight]

Do you happen to be in extreme southern Missouri?

I'm in the Republik of Kalifornia.

The poison oak in the chaparral is in all the valleys out here,
especially if they've been cleared at one time (even twenty years ago).

The leaves are reddish, and small in the areas that are often shaded by
neighboring hills; and huge and green in the sunlit areas. Likewise, the
stems are as thin as pencils in the shaded areas (although they make up
in sheer intertwined volume what they lack in girth)... and the vines
that grow twenty or thirty feet into the trees are easily thicker than
your wrist.

It's a veritable jungle (in places), especially near the seasonal streams
and they almost choke the oak trees, as if the sudden oak death fungus
wasn't enough to do them in.

When you cut the thicker climbing vines, within a few days, you can see
the stain of the black lacquer of the oxidized urushiol literally
dripping down all around the cut areas.

It should be noted that EVERY part of the plant exudes urushiol when the
cell membrane is damaged (which takes almost no force to do on the
leaves, for example). But, I'm cutting and slashing and pulling at the
stuff! So, there is black splotchy urushiol all over my gloves and
clothes.

Funny thing is that the black doesn't show up right away ... it takes
only a single wash & dry cycle. Even air drying (for the gloves) shows up
the black so it isn't heat. It shows up outside on the cut vines.

If any chem engineers know WHY urushiol turns black after washing, please
let us know! It's my "assumption" (yes, I know) that this is due to
"oxidation" of the urushiol.

But, you chem engineers should know better than I.

[Mel Knight]

Do you happen to be in extreme southern Missouri?

I'm in the Republik of Kalifornia.

The poison oak in the chaparral is in all the valleys out here,
especially if they've been cleared at one time (even twenty years ago).

The leaves are reddish, and small in the areas that are often shaded by
neighboring hills; and huge and green in the sunlit areas. Likewise, the
stems are as thin as pencils in the shaded areas (although they make up
in sheer intertwined volume what they lack in girth)... and the vines
that grow twenty or thirty feet into the trees are easily thicker than
your wrist.

It's a veritable jungle (in places), especially near the seasonal streams
and they almost choke the oak trees, as if the sudden oak death fungus
wasn't enough to do them in.

When you cut the thicker climbing vines, within a few days, you can see
the stain of the black lacquer of the oxidized urushiol literally
dripping down all around the cut areas.

It should be noted that EVERY part of the plant exudes urushiol when the
cell membrane is damaged (which takes almost no force to do on the
leaves, for example). But, I'm cutting and slashing and pulling at the
stuff! So, there is black splotchy urushiol all over my gloves and
clothes.

Funny thing is that the black doesn't show up right away ... it takes
only a single wash & dry cycle. Even air drying (for the gloves) shows up
the black so it isn't heat. It shows up outside on the cut vines.

If any chem engineers know WHY urushiol turns black after washing, please
let us know! It's my "assumption" (yes, I know) that this is due to
"oxidation" of the urushiol.

But, you chem engineers should know better than I.

[ChairMan]

Post by Mel Knight

I think the other poster was suggesting that if you washed your
urushiol tainted clothes in the washing machine, then all your
regular clothes will become contaminated when washing them in the
same machine. That's how I read it anyway, I could be wrong, it
happens a lot.

I don't want to get into any arguments, because of my nature, and,
more importantly, because I'm asking YOU guys for help!
See this picture of all my failed experiments! :(
http://www.ephotobay.com/image/poison-oak-gloves-shrunk.jpg
Consider me an "accidental" expert in urushiol contamination!
From my experience (only), there is no cross contamination after
washing in the washing machine. I fully 'understand' why anyone would
'think' there is cross contamination. I would think so too. But there
just isn't. (That's what I love about experimental evidence; you
don't have to understand it if you can't understand it (and I can't);
but, it is what it is.)
I have cleared over 500-yards of poison oak, creating a tunnel as
tall as a man and as wide as he stands, pulling vines down from
twenty feet into the air, forty foot long vines digging into the
loose hilly soil, vines intertwined so thickly you can't walk through
the stuff and you're a foot off the ground in layers of the stuff
underfoot. Hills so steep, no machine can safely stay on the heavily
overgrown chaparral slope.
Anywhere the vines touch bare skin (mostly neck, face, wrists, &
ankles or torn clothing), I break out in a rash. Otherwise, I'm
entirely covered in two layers of cloth, but, of course, the
problematic arc-welding gloves are only one layer deep {of deer,
goat, and pigskin by way of experiments to see which resist shrinking
after water washing & air drying).
The cowhide arc-welding gloves shrinks far too much; the goatskin
lanolin arc-welding gloves seems to shrink the least (but still far
too much); and any 'normal' (generally cowhide) work gloves are
ridiculously useless (too short for the most part, and too thin).
BTW, there is PLENTY of cross contamination (for years thereafter) if
you do NOT wash the clothes and gloves in the washing machine!
But, whatever (chemically) happens in the washing machine, works just
fine. I know this stuff rather well as all the black splotches in the
picture attached is oxidized urushiol. (For some reason, the black
only shows up on the clothes after you wash them - but the black
lacquer does show up on easily oozing out on cut vines a few days
after cutting the vine).
What I'm trying to find out is how to WASH the gloves without having
them SHRINK two sizes on me! I can't get them any bigger than XL and
they're MEDIUMs by the time they're cold washed in water and air
dried.
BTW, do any of the engineers on here know WHY wet leather SHRINKS?
Is it a physical or chemical process?

Try to find some maannequin hands that are as big as your hands and stretch
the wet gloves on them to dry

[Smitty Two]

Post by Mel Knight
What I'm trying to find out is how to WASH the gloves without having them
SHRINK two sizes on me!

Leather shrinks when you wash and dry it. And poison oak oils penetrate
leather anyway, so they're the wrong type of glove for your work.

On the one hand I admire your courage, tackling a veritable forest of
poison oak. On the other, I think you're a stubborn fool for insisting
on a way to unshrink leather rather than using something more
appropriate.

[The Daring Dufas]

Post by Smitty Two

Post by Mel Knight
What I'm trying to find out is how to WASH the gloves without having them
SHRINK two sizes on me!

Leather shrinks when you wash and dry it. And poison oak oils penetrate
leather anyway, so they're the wrong type of glove for your work.
On the one hand I admire your courage, tackling a veritable forest of
poison oak. On the other, I think you're a stubborn fool for insisting
on a way to unshrink leather rather than using something more
appropriate.

Aren't there some surplus space suits left over from the old Soviet
Space Program? I could have sworn I saw some being auctioned online.

TDD

[Mel Knight]

Post by Smitty Two
And poison oak oils penetrate
leather anyway, so they're the wrong type of glove for your work.

I certainly have read that. Oils certainly do penetrate leather. But, the
proof is in the pudding. My hands don't get poison oak rash while other
parts of my body do so they must be working (yes, I know the palms are
thick skin, but, not the rest of the hand, especially between the
fingers).

Also, I've looked at the blotches of black stains on the gloves (did you
see the photo I posted?) and those black blotches of oxidized urushiol do
NOT penetrate the leather.

Post by Smitty Two
you're a stubborn fool for insisting on a way to unshrink leather
rather than using something more appropriate.

Whatever gloves I use must be pliable (I pull vines for four hours at a
stretch) and washable, yet prevent tears and they must be really long.

I looked at 'extrication' gloves, but most I saw were not washable.
Rubber would be ridiculous (doesn't have the pliability).

Do you have ideas for poison oak gloves?

Requirements:
- Should cost less than somewhere around fifty dollars (these are work
gloves, after all)
- Must cover the wrists at least as much as welder's gloves
- Must be wholly washable
- Must be reasonably durable
- Must be reasonably pliable (enough to grasp pencil-thin vines for hours
at a stretch in addition to wrist-sized ones)
- Must protect the hands (so they need to be 'reasonably' thick

If you have gloves that fit the bill - I'm all ears!

[Vic Smith]

Post by Mel Knight
- Should cost less than somewhere around fifty dollars (these are work
gloves, after all)
- Must cover the wrists at least as much as welder's gloves
- Must be wholly washable
- Must be reasonably durable
- Must be reasonably pliable (enough to grasp pencil-thin vines for hours
at a stretch in addition to wrist-sized ones)
- Must protect the hands (so they need to be 'reasonably' thick
If you have gloves that fit the bill - I'm all ears!

What are you, a professional poison ivy remover? (-:
Washable is the big fly in the ointment.
If they're lined they won't wash well.
You can google cuffed rubber gloves.
I'd use an unlined rubber glove.
If you put on a pair of cheap disposable food handling gloves first
you won't stink up the rubber gloves. Nitrile I think.
My kid uses them for some automotive dirty work.
Every pair of rubber gloves - lined or unlined - I've ever encountered
stunk after being used a few times.

My wife uses cotton rubber coated gloves for weed pulling.
Not for poison ivy, but barb/thorn/thistle protection.
Picks them up at cheapo stores when she sees them.
I've handled them, and they're pretty stiff, but she can pull pretty
small weeds with them.
She never washes them, just throws them away if they get too stinky.
Can't you just spray something that kills the poison ivy juice on the
gloves? Or just wash the outside with soap and water?

--Vic